Wednesday, April 1, 2009

Quote

"The social engineer is the reformer who is prepared to liquidate all those who do not fit into his plan for the arrangement of human affairs."

Mises

11 comments:

Christopher said...

Of course, all the positive examples of social engineering contradict Mises and reveal him to be a simple-minded moron. Black and white all the way.. no gray..

Josh said...

Such as?

Christopher said...

Feminist movement, classical liberal movement, socialist movement in terms of social democracy, the free university movement, the pro-gay movement, etc, the overall Enlightenment project..

Chris said...

Yup, almost none of these movements were "ready to liquidate people". I guess Mises was a moron, because I think it is pretty obvious that there are social engineers who aim to change society without violence.

WHAT A FUCKING RETARDED STATEMENT THAT WAS>

Josh said...

Free university "liquidates" those who are robbed of their earnings, socialist movement liquidates those who would prefer to live in a free society.

I wouldn't consider a movement where a group of individuals are fighting for their natural rights as social engineering (Feminist, classical liberal, pro-gay).

Josh said...

Also, keep in mind Mises lived through the days of Stalin, Hitler and Mao.

Christopher said...

"Free university "liquidates" those who are robbed of their earnings,"

No, they don't. No more than me paying 5 cents tax on a chocolate bar liquidates me.

"socialist movement liquidates those who would prefer to live in a free society."

Sorry, "socialist-free" is not a basic binary opposition. Okay, you are right, "authoritarian communist-free" is a basic opposition, but that is only because the communism is authoritarian. DUH.

"Socialist = unfree" is Orewellian-speak and/or and unsupportable conclusion, just as you will "ABSOLUTELY DO X" in the future, based on past actions, is an unsupportable conclusion.

"I wouldn't consider a movement where a group of individuals are fighting for their natural rights as social engineering (Feminist, classical liberal, pro-gay)."

Anything that changes the way a society was before by apply a limited amount of force, knowledge, and principle is social engineering. If you can provide an alternative definition, I'd love to dissect it.

Josh said...

"Anything that changes the way a society was before by apply a limited amount of force, knowledge, and principle is social engineering. If you can provide an alternative definition, I'd love to dissect it."

I'd perceive social engineering more in line with government intervening and directing society in a particular direction that the government perceives as better. There needs to be an engineer afterall. Hitler, Mao, and Stalin provide extreme examples, but organizations that push through legislation forcing people to live a certain way, instead of supporting individual choice and freedom, take part in social engineering. This can be seen with drug laws. Free people would enjoy the use of drugs and to legislate against this is an example of social engineering. Not that I claim to know a lot about social engineering.

Christopher said...

"I'd perceive social engineering more in line with government intervening and directing society in a particular direction that the government perceives as better."

Yes, I know, because you are an idiot unable to think beyond your ideological box.

YOU DONT NEED TO BE A POLITICIAN TO BE A SOCIAL ENGINEER>

"There needs to be an engineer afterall."

True, and those engineers can exist on any level of society. Givig a child a good spanking is a form of social engineering.

"Hitler, Mao, and Stalin provide extreme examples, but organizations that push through legislation forcing people to live a certain way, instead of supporting individual choice and freedom, take part in social engineering."

Sorry, social engineering can happen democratically as well. In fact, it happens whenever a political ideology is supported, like you are doing now.

"This can be seen with drug laws. Free people would enjoy the use of drugs and to legislate against this is an example of social engineering. Not that I claim to know a lot about social engineering."

I would say you know very little beyond what your social engineer (Ron Paul) has told you.

Josh said...

"Yes, I know, because you are an idiot unable to think beyond your ideological box."

At least I can admit when I do not know much about something.

Someone who believes people should be able to live how they want is not a social engineer. The term "social engineer" implies society is being engineered in a direction it otherwise would not have been, which is kinda a contradiction anyway.

Christopher said...

"Someone who believes people should be able to live how they want is not a social engineer. The term "social engineer" implies society is being engineered in a direction it otherwise would not have been, which is kinda a contradiction anyway."

Ah, yes, they are, because they are changing the way society was before.