Friday, April 3, 2009

If Anyone Was Doubting China's Rise As A World Power. . .



I love how the last half of the segment talks about China's factories closing, as if these factories closing were a big deal considering their economy is still booming while the rest of us are suffering. And then they talk as if 30 million of 900 million out of work is this huge problem. That's 3%! If only our unemployment was that low! If the Chinese aren't rich enough to buy their own products, then what was the point of showing all of the footage of Chinese buying their own products? And who is buying their products? Their economy is still growing so somebody must be. . .the problem is that their pegged currency creates an illusion that the per capita annual income of $3000 US doesn't give the average Chinese the wealth to buy their own products when they actually do.

7 comments:

Christopher said...

I'm sorry, but this video is blatantly dishonest. First, it says the Chinese are "snapping up sewing machines", making it sound like their economy is causing a growth of consumption, and then goes on to say that most Chinese have a low per capita income. They should have said it the other way around, without the propaganda: "The Chinese will not help us out of this depression, even with an 8% growth rate. The factories that employ them pay per capita incomes that are far too low to afford the very products they manufacture. They are wage slaves. However, rich Chinese are spending, and some middle class or lower class Chinese who have saved are buying sewing machines (lol).

Christopher said...

BUT BUYING SEWING MACHINES WILL NOT GET THE WORLD OUT OF A RECESSION>

Josh said...

The point is that China's economy is still booming and they have extremely low unemployment.

Christopher said...

Hey, Josh, the promise of capitalism is not a bowl of plain rice. It is wealth. The Chinese workers are not getting wealthy, because there is an internal contradiction within capitalism itself, that of the struggle between profits and wages.

Again, the video is dishonest. It should highlight the low wages first and the sewing machine snapping second. Those are the facts.

Josh said...

Low wages now, but where are their wages and the value of their wages going? Up.

$3000/year is more than what the number indicates anyhow. $3000 spent in China can buy a lot more than $3000 spent in the US. Not that they live the lifestyle us North Americans enjoy; this is probably a good thing as our lifestyles are ruining the planet.

I have a few coworkers from India. Its fun talking to them about gold and money. They say if they went back to India they would make quite a bit less money if they exchanged it in Canadian dollars, but they'd actually be able to live a higher quality of life. When I asked them why they came to Canada they had trouble answering, only to say we have a more stable government. The point is simple, exchange rates do not tell the whole story.

The average Chinese is getting more wealthy as they have a much higher savings rate than North Americans and they are much more productive. You continue to ignore the fact that the Chinese economy is still growing even though the economies of the west are shrinking. How could this occur if China was completely dependent on American consumerism? And economies don't grow if the middle class is not growing.

You're stuck thinking about wages nominally, and you're consistently stuck in the now instead of paying attention to where current trends are taking us and those around the world.

Christopher said...

"Low wages now, but where are their wages and the value of their wages going? Up."

Not much up, because if they were to increase too much, that would defeat the purpose of the multi-nationals employing them. SEE JOSH^, CONTRADICTION!

"$3000/year is more than what the number indicates anyhow. $3000 spent in China can buy a lot more than $3000 spent in the US. Not that they live the lifestyle us North Americans enjoy; this is probably a good thing as our lifestyles are ruining the planet."

Yes, of course, 3000 X 8 = 24,000 RMB. However, considering that the very products they make are made to be sold to profit from a much higher price,l the exchange on the American and Western currencies, they can not afford the products of capitalism, yet..

"I have a few coworkers from India. Its fun talking to them about gold and money. They say if they went back to India they would make quite a bit less money if they exchanged it in Canadian dollars, but they'd actually be able to live a higher quality of life. When I asked them why they came to Canada they had trouble answering, only to say we have a more stable government. The point is simple, exchange rates do not tell the whole story."

No, sorry, I'm not suggesting that exchange rates are the problem. I am arguing that the wages Chinese make in China are not enough to afford the products of the multinationals, the very products they make. I am also not using educated Chinese as an example, so your "co-worker" example is the wrong example. I am talking about the working majority, not the educated and professional classes.

"The average Chinese is getting more wealthy as they have a much higher savings rate than North Americans and they are much more productive."

No, the average Chinese is not getting wealthier in the capitalist sense. Poor people have been saving money for thousands of years, but that didnt make them wealthy in the capitalist sense. Instead, high wages is how the average person becomes wealthy via capitalism. So, no, I don't care about your "savings rate" crap. If it takes an entire lifetime to save for one small thing, the economic system SUCKS>

Yes, they are more productive for low wages and many hours. WHAT A GREAT WORLD THAT IS! Work 60 to 70 hours a week, drink with your boss to all hours a night to "keep the relationship". What a great life the Koreans have!

"wealthy in You continue to ignore the fact that the Chinese economy is still growing even though the economies of the west are shrinking."

The Chinese are growing in the sense that basic infrastructure is still being built.

The economies of the west are not shrinking; instead there is a recession which will pass.

Also, the magical "economy" is not shrinking in any real sense. Instead, the working class is allowing their wealth to move overseas because it has been duped by capitalist ideologies parading as for democracy and freedom.

"How could this occur if China was completely dependent on American consumerism? And economies don't grow if the middle class is not growing."

Basic infrastructure and basic wages are being built, which accounts for the growth rate. Any pre-capitalist economy is going to have high growth rates in relation to old economies, because the basics haven't been built. We can only hope that the monopolistic multi-nationals are not to discouraging to new Chinese capital, because that is the only way, in tandem with unionization, that wages are going to increase to moralistic levels in China.

Josh said...

"Not much up, because if they were to increase too much, that would defeat the purpose of the multi-nationals employing them. SEE JOSH^, CONTRADICTION!"

You're making a couple of assumptions in that statement, 1. that its only multinationals employing them, and 2. multinationals do not benefit from a growing middle class with more money to spend on consumer products. Both assumptions are false.

"Yes, of course, 3000 X 8 = 24,000 RMB. However, considering that the very products they make are made to be sold to profit from a much higher price,l the exchange on the American and Western currencies, they can not afford the products of capitalism, yet.."

Perhaps not all, but how much crap does one need to be able to afford to buy to be able to live a healthy, happy life?

"I am also not using educated Chinese as an example, so your "co-worker" example is the wrong example. I am talking about the working majority, not the educated and professional classes."

I'm a professional?

"No, the average Chinese is not getting wealthier in the capitalist sense. Poor people have been saving money for thousands of years, but that didnt make them wealthy in the capitalist sense. Instead, high wages is how the average person becomes wealthy via capitalism. So, no, I don't care about your "savings rate" crap. If it takes an entire lifetime to save for one small thing, the economic system SUCKS>"

Economies evolve and China's is moving in the right direction; this evolution is derived from savings. Poor people have been saving for a long time, but typically they are robbed of their savings by governments.

"The economies of the west are not shrinking; instead there is a recession which will pass."

A recession is a shrinking economy.

"Also, the magical "economy" is not shrinking in any real sense. Instead, the working class is allowing their wealth to move overseas because it has been duped by capitalist ideologies parading as for democracy and freedom."

That is why the economy is shrinking in a very real sense.

"Basic infrastructure and basic wages are being built, which accounts for the growth rate. Any pre-capitalist economy is going to have high growth rates in relation to old economies, because the basics haven't been built. We can only hope that the monopolistic multi-nationals are not to discouraging to new Chinese capital, because that is the only way, in tandem with unionization, that wages are going to increase to moralistic levels in China."

You have this weird natural instinct to ignore the obvious and create bullshit explanations.