Tuesday, January 6, 2009

Ron Paul On Market Intervention and the SEC

28 comments:

Douglas Porter said...

No, Ron Paul, the useless government agencies of the New Deal didn't make the depression longer. It was the dust bowl and the thosuands of banks failures that did that.

No, Ron Paul, the useless government agencies and useful government agencies could not have made the depression longer, because they were spending money that would not have been spent otherwise on infrastructure. The rich still had money to invest, and the reason they didnt invest faster was not because of taxes, but because of a busines climate where millions of farms had gone out of business.

Josh said...

I'll wait and see if Dr. Paul responds.

Douglas Porter said...

No, Ron Paul, assuming trust in the market is foolish when people's lives are at stake. Dangerous products should not be knowingly sold on the market

Josh said...

Yes, allowing people to live when lives are at stake is horrible immoral.

Douglas Porter said...

What are you talking about?

Douglas Porter said...

No, Ron Paul, fraud laws are not enough and are not the problem. The problem is dangerous product that people don't have the money to test. That's the problem.

No, Ron Paul, the social security system has nothing do with regulating business. You just went on an off-topic, illogical rant against government.

Douglas Porter said...

Sorry, Ron Paul, people don't have the money to test products to see if they are dangerous or defective.

Josh said...

"You just went on an off-topic, illogical rant against government."

This is one thing I don't like about Paul, but I blame it on his old age.

Douglas Porter said...

It is morally right to support an independent government organization that tests or requires companies to sell safe products.

Josh said...

"independent government organization" oxymoron?

Douglas Porter said...

Independent of the business.

Douglas Porter said...

It's only oxymoronic, because you are a follower, because you don't critique what you are feeding yourself.

Josh said...

And I suppose if its an arm of a government it represents no motive but honesty and therefore can be labeled independent?

Chris said...

And I suppose if its business it represents no motive but honesty and therefore can be labeled trustworthy?

Josh said...

"And I suppose if its business it represents no motive but honesty and therefore can be labeled trustworthy?"

Trust occurs between two individuals. You might find a particular business trustworthy where I may not. So no, therefore it cannot be labeled trustworthy.

Chris said...

"Trust occurs between two individuals. You might find a particular business trustworthy where I may not. So no, therefore it cannot be labeled trustworthy."

And should be regulated rationally so that it can not harm me when I buy a product. I DONT WANT TO GO TO THE SCIENCE LAB EVERY TIME I WANT TO BUY A NEW PRODUCT!

Josh said...

"And should be regulated rationally so that it can not harm me when I buy a product. I DONT WANT TO GO TO THE SCIENCE LAB EVERY TIME I WANT TO BUY A NEW PRODUCT!"

Trust needs to be regulated?

If you don't want to go to a science lab, buy products from only individuals you trust. I know, this is crazy talk. You should be able to buy anything you want with no worries. . .after all, thats what our oil based, big government economy has allowed us to do, no matter how wasteful and harmful to the earth it has been. Buy local, by smart, if this is your concern.

Douglas Porter said...

"Trust needs to be regulated?"

I wouldn't tell my children to trust a stranger, so why should I trust one?

"If you don't want to go to a science lab, buy products from only individuals you trust."

That's patent garbage.

"I know, this is crazy talk. You should be able to buy anything you want with no worries. . .after all, thats what our oil based, big government economy has allowed us to do, no matter how wasteful and harmful to the earth it has been. Buy local, by smart, if this is your concern."

Factory production does not allow for the trust you speak of.

Josh said...

"I wouldn't tell my children to trust a stranger, so why should I trust one?"

I'm not asking you too. This is why some will say regulations destroy communities because instead of needing to get to know your neighbor, you can trust the government is watching them for you.

"That's patent garbage."

Only if you want to continue buying the same crap over and over again to support an economy that's destroying the environment. Just saying its "patent garbage" doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

"Factory production does not allow for the trust you speak of."

Sure it does. I trust Honda therefore I bought a Honda. You can build a trusting relationship with a business; most business relationships are based on trust.

Douglas Porter said...

"I'm not asking you too. This is why some will say regulations destroy communities because instead of needing to get to know your neighbor, you can trust the government is watching them for you."

Josh, maybe you should watch Dad's "Story of Stuff", because you don't seem to understand that most products are assembled from pieces made all over the world, by scores or hundreds of sub contractors. If I want to buy any of the product of modern capitalism, I have to buy from strangers.

Douglas Porter said...

"Only if you want to continue buying the same crap over and over again to support an economy that's destroying the environment. Just saying its "patent garbage" doesn't mean it doesn't make sense."

No, Josh, only if you want to buy just about any product made by the capitalist economy.

I'm all for reducing crap and encouging longer lasting products, but in the meantime the very nature of the production process leads to a STRANGERIFICATION OF THE ECONOMY. Capitalism creates it. Not people. Its called "estrangment" and "alienation" in marxist philosophy. I can post the links if you want them.

Josh said...

"Josh, maybe you should watch Dad's "Story of Stuff", because you don't seem to understand that most products are assembled from pieces made all over the world, by scores or hundreds of sub contractors. If I want to buy any of the product of modern capitalism, I have to buy from strangers."

Stop buying this stuff if you're concerned of where its coming from. The system isn't sustainable anyway, the market will end up forcing people to buy more locally anyhow.

"No, Josh, only if you want to buy just about any product made by the capitalist economy."

Buying local is buying products made by the capitalist economy.

"I'm all for reducing crap and encouging longer lasting products, but in the meantime the very nature of the production process leads to a STRANGERIFICATION OF THE ECONOMY. Capitalism creates it. Not people. Its called "estrangment" and "alienation" in marxist philosophy. I can post the links if you want them."

It doesn't matter. If you don't trust the product you are buying, than don't buy it. Do you know for sure that every product you buy has been tested by government? That every product is absolutely safe? No. So you're obviously not that concerned that you're buying from strangers, otherwise you wouldn't.

Douglas Porter said...

"Stop buying this stuff if you're concerned of where its coming from. The system isn't sustainable anyway, the market will end up forcing people to buy more locally anyhow."

LOL. The rich can enjoy the fruits of capitalist, but the rest of should stop "buying this stuff". Sorry, that's crap.

"Buying local is buying products made by the capitalist economy."

Could you name the products that I can buy locally?

"It doesn't matter. If you don't trust the product you are buying, than don't buy it. Do you know for sure that every product you buy has been tested by government? That every product is absolutely safe? No. So you're obviously not that concerned that you're buying from strangers, otherwise you wouldn't."

Regulation reduces the risk significantly.

Josh said...

"LOL. The rich can enjoy the fruits of capitalist, but the rest of should stop "buying this stuff". Sorry, that's crap."

What are you talking about?

"Could you name the products that I can buy locally?"

I have no idea, I don't live in South Korea. However if I was worried about every product I bought from the BIG BAD corporations, I would move somewhere where I could survive on local products. Of course, you shouldn't have to be expected to move somewhere in order to fulfill the lifestyle you want. You should be able to enjoy the lifestyle you want where ever you want as long as you put in your 8 hours. Right?

"Regulation reduces the risk significantly."

By how much?

Douglas Porter said...

"What are you talking about?"

I'm talking about the rich talking heads preaching spendthriftyness and savings because they know wages are dropping to the poverty line. THEY benefit from capitalism, but they have the balls to go on television and tell everyone else to get ready to live poor.

"I have no idea, I don't live in South Korea. However if I was worried about every product I bought from the BIG BAD corporations, I would move somewhere where I could survive on local products."

Where is that?

"Of course, you shouldn't have to be expected to move somewhere in order to fulfill the lifestyle you want. You should be able to enjoy the lifestyle you want where ever you want as long as you put in your 8 hours. Right?"

I don't understand your question.

"By how much?"

Significantly more than the free market. Sorta like the police, Josh. Without them there would be anarchy. We still have crime, but it is significantly better than anarchy.

Josh said...

"Where is that?"

I don't know, I'm not that worried.

"I don't understand your question."

Its sarcasm.

"Significantly more than the free market."

I'd like numbers.

Josh said...

"Sorta like the police, Josh. Without them there would be anarchy. We still have crime, but it is significantly better than anarchy."

This is a completely false analogy. You said either because you're ignorant or because you're a liar :).

Regulations are laws and laws alone do not prevent crime. This is the same as police. Police are not laws, and they do not alone prevent crime. Laws are supposed to protect individual's freedoms, and police are there to enforce. Your argument would be the more regulation, or the more law, the less crime. The more police we have doesn't equal less crime though.

In the two countries in the world with the most regulation and laws, the most police, US and China, they have the highest "crime" rates, and the highest incarceration rates.

Police are needed to enforce just laws. Regulation and police are not analogous. Often regulation is not just because it harms others unintentionally; the situation with toy retailers and manufacturers in the US being a prime example.

Douglas Porter said...

"This is a completely false analogy. You said either because you're ignorant or because you're a liar :).
"

Not at all. Police enforcement of the law is a type of regulation of society.

"Regulations are laws and laws alone do not prevent crime. This is the same as police. Police are not laws, and they do not alone prevent crime. Laws are supposed to protect individual's freedoms, and police are there to enforce. Your argument would be the more regulation, or the more law, the less crime. The more police we have doesn't equal less crime though."

Um, you seem to be forgetting that police officers are the muscle of the law. The more law, the more police officers, the more the law is enforced.

"In the two countries in the world with the most regulation and laws, the most police, US and China, they have the highest "crime" rates, and the highest incarceration rates."

Cultural issues are also a factor. But the argument stands. The police execute the law. They are the face of regulation.

"Police are needed to enforce just laws. Regulation and police are not analogous."

Hey, guess what! I don't think your laws are just! I think you are a fat wind bag that wants to protect your wealth! Now what, Josh? How do conclude that a law is "just" and another law is "regulation". You can't. They are inherently intertwined.... unless, of course, you are an authoritarian in opposition to democratic law.