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Random thoughts and interesting tidbits. . .
. . .focused on current economical and political events.
"But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
Thomas Jefferson
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18 comments:
*Sigh* He fails to point out that the very first state was created by the grab for private property. How UNOBJECTIVE>
How is it private property if the state grabs it?
The very first state was private propety. That's why we had Kings and Lords with the most private property.
And the King is government. . .
Yup, and private property his child.
But if the government owns it, its not private property...
True, but public property came later... My point still stands, private property is the result of government, of a violent grab of communal wealth during the transition from the nomad economy to agricultural economy.
I'm not sure what we're proving by discussing this but anyway...
Are you saying there were no battles for property before kings? If a group of voluntary individuals lay claim to a piece of land, it is still private property. Private property does not only apply to individuals.
"Are you saying there were no battles for property before kings? If a group of voluntary individuals lay claim to a piece of land, it is still private property. Private property does not only apply to individuals."
Communal means that no one nor any group had owned a tract of land.
"Communal means that no one nor any group had owned a tract of land."
There were no battles for territory before Kings?
"
There were no battles for territory before Kings?"
Between tribes, yes, but that doesn't make the territories they controlled "private property". They were territories that tribe X controlled.
"Between tribes, yes, but that doesn't make the territories they controlled "private property". They were territories that tribe X controlled."
Which is essentially private property.
If territory that and individual or a group of individuals voluntarily agree to control isn't private property, I'm not sure what is.
"Which is essentially private property."
No, it is essentially a body of land controlled by a nation or tribe. If I were to take your assertion seriously, I would have to conclude that the entire United States is private property.
"If territory that and individual or a group of individuals voluntarily agree to control isn't private property, I'm not sure what is."
It's not private property. It's something else.
"No, it is essentially a body of land controlled by a nation or tribe. If I were to take your assertion seriously, I would have to conclude that the entire United States is private property."
We weren't talking about nations. What made the US so great is that the individual could free himself from the oppression of the tribe and own his own property. There are communities in the US where groups of people voluntarily share ownership of the community. They consider all of the roads private property, not public. But its voluntary.
"It's not private property. It's something else."
Nope, its private property.
"We weren't talking about nations. What made the US so great is that the individual could free himself from the oppression of the tribe and own his own property. There are communities in the US where groups of people voluntarily share ownership of the community. They consider all of the roads private property, not public. But its voluntary."
For most of history private property was not "voluntary", and resulted in the worst types of private property: brides, slaves, serfs, etc. That's the world you support.
The modern free market will lead to wage slavery just as the original "private property" and "free market of the stronger" led to slavery and selling of human beings.
"Nope, its private property."
Nope, it's communal ownership. That's why we call it public property. "Public" is just another word for communal/community.
"For most of history private property was not "voluntary", and resulted in the worst types of private property: brides, slaves, serfs, etc. That's the world you support."
Yes, the guy that advocating for civil liberties to be respect is the one that's advocating slaves. Remember, you're the one that likes FDR, the fella that put Japanese-Americans in prisons just for being Japanese.
"Nope, it's communal ownership. That's why we call it public property. "Public" is just another word for communal/community."
No, there's a difference. Public property is owned by the government and the government has jurisdiction over that property. Communal ownership is private property. Each individual involved has an agreed upon stake; a contract that must be respected.
This reminds me of Dad referring a group of individuals getting together to help someone in need to socialism. Well know, its not socialism because buddy up the road and opt-out.
With public property, or government property, I pay for that through involuntary taxes and have no agreed up contract with the government on what my stake in the use of that land it.
"Yes, the guy that advocating for civil liberties to be respect is the one that's advocating slaves. Remember, you're the one that likes FDR, the fella that put Japanese-Americans in prisons just for being Japanese."
That was more the result of the attitudes of the time.
"No, there's a difference. Public property is owned by the government and the government has jurisdiction over that property. Communal ownership is private property. Each individual involved has an agreed upon stake; a contract that must be respected.
"
Exactly the same as democratically administered public property.
"With public property, or government property, I pay for that through involuntary taxes and have no agreed up contract with the government on what my stake in the use of that land it."
Um, yes you do. It's called representative democratic government. THERE YOU ARE TALKING LIKE AN AUTHORITARIAN LIBERTARD AGAIN JOSH!
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