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Random thoughts and interesting tidbits. . .
. . .focused on current economical and political events.
"But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
Thomas Jefferson
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17 comments:
I'm sorry, Josh, but the Internet is not a great place to measure this sort of sentiment, because the Internet is skewed toward the right and libertarians. Everybody knows who is the most active political denomination.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the Chysler blog is more representative of libertard rage than public opinion.
Remember, the Senate did not pass the bailout, which proves the public disapproval of it must be high.
Everytime I post a link to comments or surveys do I need to point out that these do not necessarily represent a cross section of society? Is it not obvious that these types of tools are representative of more opinionated individuals as they need to proactively post these comments?
Honestly, neither of us really knows how representative of the public they are and I just thought the comments were interesting. Some of them make great points, and they still represent a portion of the US society that think this bailout is horrible.
Shame on me for linking it I suppose.
But thanks for being sorry Chris, I forgive you.
"Everybody knows who is the most active political denomination."
I thought this was the left to be honest, considering the president that was just elected.
"Remember, the Senate did not pass the bailout, which proves the public disapproval of it must be high."
Not really. That could also prove that they didnt have the money.
"Everytime I post a link to comments or surveys do I need to point out that these do not necessarily represent a cross section of society? Is it not obvious that these types of tools are representative of more opinionated individuals as they need to proactively post these comments?"
I was just pointing it out.
"Honestly, neither of us really knows how representative of the public they are and I just thought the comments were interesting. Some of them make great points, and they still represent a portion of the US society that think this bailout is horrible."
I'm pretty sure they are not representative of the greater population. The majority of bloggers are either right wing or libetarian. It's only in the last election cycle that "liberal rage" on the Internet has arisen.
"But thanks for being sorry Chris, I forgive you."
Ah, following my style.
"I thought this was the left to be honest, considering the president that was just elected."
Actually, it was the moderates who were activated by Bush's idiocy, not the liberals.
ON THE INTERNET! On the Internet the most active groups are the libertarians followed by the conservatives! Hello! Don't you know anything about the history of the Internet!
Shame on me for linking it I suppose.
"Not really. That could also prove that they didnt have the money."
Lol. The only time US politicians vote not to spend money is when there is a large amount of public pressure.
"The majority of bloggers are either right wing or libetarian."
The majority of bloggers are left wing liberals.
"On the Internet the most active groups are the libertarians followed by the conservatives! Hello! Don't you know anything about the history of the Internet!"
The exclamation marks really help in animating your voice and getting your point across.
"Lol. The only time US politicians vote not to spend money is when there is a large amount of public pressure."
Again, patently false. Politicians are not out there just spending money left and right. That is a false perception of politics and clearly the result of cynics filtering of the facts to justify their jaded view. Politics is not that simple, and anyone who thinks that way is clearly an idiot.
POLITICIANS DO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM>
"The majority of bloggers are left wing liberals."
I've been arguing on the Internet for 5 years, Josh. I always seem to get into stupid arguments with libertards. Why is that, Josh? Oh, yeah, because they have the biggest presence.
"The exclamation marks really help in animating your voice and getting your point across."
Aw, poopsy snookums, did I hurt your wittle feelings? Are you hurtzy wurtzy that I'm wiling to call you out on your filtering of the facts that don't agree with your idioteology? Poopsy, in the future I'll allow you to have your wittle opinion, no matter how wittle sense it makes.
"Again, patently false. Politicians are not out there just spending money left and right. That is a false perception of politics and clearly the result of cynics filtering of the facts to justify their jaded view. Politics is not that simple, and anyone who thinks that way is clearly an idiot."
Well, I did add the clause "when there is a large amount of public pressure". However please go here http://www.mises.org/markets.asp and look the graphs showing "Federal Surplus or Deficit", "Gross Federal Debt", "Gross Federal Debt Held By The Public", "Federal Government: Current Expenditures" and once again reduce yourself to level of a 10 year old, call me a name, and then tell me US politicians are not spending money left or right.
And just for shits and giggles, when looking at the Federal Surplus or Deficit graph, notice the big increase in activity after the government was taken off of the gold standard in 1971.
"
Well, I did add the clause "when there is a large amount of public pressure". However please go here http://www.mises.org/markets.asp and look the graphs showing "Federal Surplus or Deficit", "Gross Federal Debt", "Gross Federal Debt Held By The Public", "Federal Government: Current Expenditures" and once again reduce yourself to level of a 10 year old, call me a name, and then tell me US politicians are not spending money left or right."
Well, the Republicans surely are, because they are spending money on an unjust war. As for social spending, it's not a "deficit". Its a loan.
"And just for shits and giggles, when looking at the Federal Surplus or Deficit graph, notice the big increase in activity after the government was taken off of the gold standard in 1971."
Hey, Josh! Ten year olds also like to put their fingers in their and hold their breath to avoid hearing certain FACTS from their parents.
"Hey, Josh! Ten year olds also like to put their fingers in their and hold their breath to avoid hearing certain FACTS from their parents."
What does that have to do with the graph?
"Well, the Republicans surely are, because they are spending money on an unjust war. As for social spending, it's not a "deficit". Its a loan."
This wasn't the argument that we were having.
"What does that have to do with the graph?"
The graph is stupid for the reasons you are ignoring.
"This wasn't the argument that we were having."
Remember, the budget was balanced with social spending.
Moreover, spending "money left and right" means spending money without regards to what it is being spent on. Some of this surely happens, but it is not the dominant practice, as you are asserting.
"The graph is stupid for the reasons you are ignoring."
And apparently reasons you're not providing.
"Remember, the budget was balanced with social spending."
Again, during a dot-com bubble that burst which was caused by the Fed. My favorite politicians are the ones who honest balance the budget though. However, if we did live in a world where our government budgets were balanced, I would still argue to abolish the immoral federal income tax.
An interesting example of individual charity, in Paul's book he quotes this study https://www.hudson.org/bookstore/itemdetail.cfm?item=3032 which provides evidence that individual american private citizens as a whole give 4 times more towards charity than the US government.
"Moreover, spending "money left and right" means spending money without regards to what it is being spent on. Some of this surely happens, but it is not the dominant practice, as you are asserting."
The graphs provided show that it has become a dominant practice since the gold standard was removed.
"And apparently reasons you're not providing."
We've gone over it ad infinitum.
"Again, during a dot-com bubble that burst which was caused by the Fed."
No, the speculation was the primary cause. The easy to get loans was merely the lubricant. There was lots of private investment money sloshing around.
"My favorite politicians are the ones who honest balance the budget though."
Yes, but you are an idiot. If government borrows money responsibly, it is not a bad thing.
"However, if we did live in a world where our government budgets were balanced, I would still argue to abolish the immoral federal income tax."
In favor of a sales tax, which is no more an act of choice. YOU MUST BUY PRODUCTS. Your argument is flawed.
"An interesting example of individual charity, in Paul's book he quotes this study https://www.hudson.org/bookstore/itemdetail.cfm?item=3032 which provides evidence that individual american private citizens as a whole give 4 times more towards charity than the US government."
Individual charity does not work. 16% live below the poverty line.
"We've gone over it ad infinitum."
Actually this is the first time we've talked about that graph. I was just pointing out that it was interesting, you're calling it stupid. I'm just wondering why its stupid.
"No, the speculation was the primary cause. The easy to get loans was merely the lubricant. There was lots of private investment money sloshing around."
But it all stems from one place...
Speculation is ok. Failure is part of nature and part of the markets, and so is success. With a sound currency though investors can better manage risk. Risk becomes a non-issue when money is easy to get. Over speculation is the symptom of poor monetary policy.
"Yes, but you are an idiot. If government borrows money responsibly, it is not a bad thing."
I'm not going to disagree, but why should they ever need to? Increasing one's debt does only decreases their wealth. Maybe during war, a real war, I could understand, but otherwise there is no real need for government to borrow. And if you consider Obama's trillion dollar deficits on top of America's 10 trillion dollar debt borrowing "responsibly"...well there's not much more I need to say on that.
"In favor of a sales tax, which is no more an act of choice. YOU MUST BUY PRODUCTS. Your argument is flawed."
No, I'd vote against the sales tax as well, on a national level. If my locality could make a decent argument for a local sales tax or income tax I might vote for it, but the federal government has no need for it.
"Individual charity does not work."
If they're donating more wealth, why does it not work?
"Actually this is the first time we've talked about that graph. I was just pointing out that it was interesting, you're calling it stupid. I'm just wondering why its stupid."
Because the data I sent you was more detailed.
"But it all stems from one place..."
PRIVATE INVESTMENT MONEY DOES NOT STEM FROM THE FED!
"Speculation is ok. Failure is part of nature and part of the markets, and so is success. With a sound currency though investors can better manage risk. Risk becomes a non-issue when money is easy to get. Over speculation is the symptom of poor monetary policy."
Speculation resulted in recession long before the state was mandated to manage monetary policy. That's how Marx was able to analyze the boom and bust cycle BEFORE the creation of the FED.
"I'm not going to disagree, but why should they ever need to? Increasing one's debt does only decreases their wealth."
No it doesn't. I allows me to spend money I will be earning in the future NOW. That's the whole idea of a loan.
"Maybe during war, a real war, I could understand, but otherwise there is no real need for government to borrow."
Sure there is. Infrastructural projects that can not be built by the free market, social safety nets that assure that the capitalist system doesn't crash.
"And if you consider Obama's trillion dollar deficits on top of America's 10 trillion dollar debt borrowing "responsibly"...well there's not much more I need to say on that."
The financial crisis was the result of deregulation. The 4 million jobs lost is causing a massive reduction in government income, just as the downward push on wages in the trades is doing the same. Its the free market's fault. Not "interventionist policies".
"No, I'd vote against the sales tax as well, on a national level. If my locality could make a decent argument for a local sales tax or income tax I might vote for it, but the federal government has no need for it."
Then how would your government derive income to pay for police officers and the military?
"If they're donating more wealth, why does it not work?"
16% below the poverty line.
"Because the data I sent you was more detailed."
Any data you have sent me is completely irrelevant to the graph you are calling stupid.
"PRIVATE INVESTMENT MONEY DOES NOT STEM FROM THE FED!"
Then where does it stem from?
"Speculation resulted in recession long before the state was mandated to manage monetary policy. That's how Marx was able to analyze the boom and bust cycle BEFORE the creation of the FED."
There were certainly central banks around during Marx's time.
"No it doesn't. I allows me to spend money I will be earning in the future NOW. That's the whole idea of a loan."
Right, so how does borrowing money from the Chinese to repair a road today assist in repaying the Chinese in the future? Poor infrastructure isn't really whats preventing economic growth in the US. . .
"Infrastructural projects that can not be built by the free market"
Free markets have built infrastructure all over the place.
"The financial crisis was the result of deregulation. The 4 million jobs lost is causing a massive reduction in government income, just as the downward push on wages in the trades is doing the same. Its the free market's fault. Not "interventionist policies"."
This has absolutely nothing to do with the US borrowing money irresponsibly.
"Then how would your government derive income to pay for police officers and the military?"
Localities can support police. Military can be support via tariffs and user fees. The US had one of the most powerful military in the world before they had an income tax, and they didn't have national sales tax either.
"16% below the poverty line."
So? I'm not sure I understand why government aid is better than individual aid. I mean, the point of taxing to provide aid is because people aren't naturally charitable, and my point was, they are, they're very charitable. Percentage of people in the US under the poverty was consistently shrinking until the 60s when anti poverty legislation was introduced for some reason the percentage stopped shrinking.
"Any data you have sent me is completely irrelevant to the graph you are calling stupid."
It is if it is inherently better than the crap you sent me.
"Then where does it stem from?"
FROM PRIVATE INVESTORS>
"There were certainly central banks around during Marx's time."
Yes, but they were heavily regulated and on the gold standard. ;)
"Right, so how does borrowing money from the Chinese to repair a road today assist in repaying the Chinese in the future? Poor infrastructure isn't really whats preventing economic growth in the US. . ."
Well, Josh, if those jobs that are created cause people to start spending again, then it will mean economic recovery in the short term.
"Free markets have built infrastructure all over the place."
I DONT WANT TO PAY A FUCKING FEE EVERYTIME I DRIVE DOWN THE STREET JOSH>
"This has absolutely nothing to do with the US borrowing money irresponsibly."
YES IT DOES. IT CAUSED THE WHOLE FIASCO IN THE FIRST PLACE.
"Localities can support police."
THROUGH TAXES!
"Military can be support via tariffs and user fees."
IN OTHER WORDS > TAXES.
"The US had one of the most powerful military in the world before they had an income tax, and they didn't have national sales tax either."
Wow, do you mean in relation to each of the powers in Europe? Obviously the continental United States would have been bigger than each indivual European power before the New Deal. It's a simple matter of size and untapped natural resources.
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