Thursday, August 13, 2009

"UPS and Fedex are doing just fine, it's the post office that's always having problems"



Perhaps one of the few statements this man has made which is not a lie.

12 comments:

Christopher said...

Nope. He has lied, but that doesn't mean he lies all time. Get your head out of your ego's ass.

Josh said...

You're right, he didn't lie in the video I posted. SO he doesn't lie all the time, but he lies a lot.

Christopher said...

He doesn't even lie 75% of the time.

Josh said...

20% would be far, far too much.

Christopher said...

Doesn't even lie 99% of the time. Instead, he made campaign promises IN THE CONTEXT OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS, which means his exertion of power and words - yes, words are power - can only be judged in relation to realpolitik. I know one thing, though, if he keeps dicking around he is going to end up creating a third party.

Josh said...

A third party is going to come anyway. There's a good enough chunk of the US populace that is disenfranchised by the two parties but are becoming more and more politically active.

That we accept lying as the nature of politics is one of the largest problems with the voting public. Paul's popularity has at least demonstrated a hunger for honesty in politics. I will not excuse a politician for lying. I don't think anyone should, but that's a personal decision. If you're ok with liars, bob's your uncle.

Christopher said...

"That we accept lying as the nature of politics is one of the largest problems with the voting public. Paul's popularity has at least demonstrated a hunger for honesty in politics. I will not excuse a politician for lying. I don't think anyone should, but that's a personal decision. If you're ok with liars, bob's your uncle."

Lying is not the nature of politics. Power is its nature. Power entails the use of strategies. Lying is one of these strategies. Politics is all about using strategies to maintain or increase power. Thus, lying is part of the game. Politics is definitely NOT defined by principle as RP argues.

Obama was voted into office by making a body of promises. One of three things has happened:

1. He hasn't been able to employ his promise because of Congress (this might be true on health care, but you never know how much acting a politician is doing. Yeah, he wrote some good books, but does he believe it?).
2. He was told by his financial backers or somebody more powerful that he can't do X and Y. (Gitmo comes to mind in relation to the military and he was probably told to keep quiet on the card check legislation by his more power backers)
3. Strategic considerations of actually being part of government. (The Ron Paul example is Ron Paul joining the Republican party. In principle, he should have his own party, but he doesn't, because it is not a practical power move. The example with Obama is a woman's right to choose. He said that it would be a top priority, but once in office he said it isn't a top priority. That's a lie. But not a very important one, because he still says he will sign legislation later on.


For me, lying is just one piece of the puzzle. It doesn't define my entire outlook. I am more interested in what the politician is doing, than with the simple fact that he or she lied. For example, Obama's rather shitty defense and promotion of health care indicates, at least to me, that he's really not into it.

Josh said...

"Lying is not the nature of politics. Power is its nature. Power entails the use of strategies. Lying is one of these strategies."

Therefore you accept lying as part of the nature of politics.

"He was told by his financial backers or somebody more powerful that he can't do X and Y."

That does not excuse him. That makes him a lying puppet.

"The Ron Paul example is Ron Paul joining the Republican party. In principle, he should have his own party, but he doesn't, because it is not a practical power move."

Right, but Ron Paul doesn't lie about it. He openly states that he has to run as a republican because he would not win otherwise.

Christopher said...

"Therefore you accept lying as part of the nature of politics."

Yes, yes, of course. Of course, calling one out is also a strategy.

"That does not excuse him. That makes him a lying puppet."

No, it makes him a puppet of power.

"Right, but Ron Paul doesn't lie about it. He openly states that he has to run as a republican because he would not win otherwise."

And that makes all his politeness even more stark, because he is not willing to rest his legitimacy on his principles.

Josh said...

"No, it makes him a puppet of power. "

That lies.

"And that makes all his politeness even more stark, because he is not willing to rest his legitimacy on his principles."

He understands the power of the podium.

Christopher said...

"That lies."

Don't care.

"He understands the power of the podium."

He understands that politics is not principle, but power.

Josh said...

"Don't care."

And you're the problem with the voting public. You don't care that you're lied to.

"He understands that politics is not principle, but power."

Yep. Can't blame him for trying to inject a bit of principle into it though, eh?